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Hi I want to start using synthogy ivory with my digital piano,but i dont know what i will need to run it. Does synthogy ivory have to be fitted into a desk top Pc or does it come as a cdrom where by it could be loaded and used by a lap top. How would it be connected to the piano Ive got a roland Hp207 and want to expand my piano sounds, if I cant use synthogy ivory with a lap top I would look at buying a yamaha digital, probably a P155 and then I would have the best of both worlds because these pianos are both very different sounding for good reasons.Some music that I play would sound better on the brighter sounding yamaha which I dont have.However to be able to use synthogy ivory I would think it will be space saving and less expensive. Regards Daz (ad) ROLAND Re: Synthogy Ivory 10/23/09 01:20 PM 10/23/09 01:20 PM Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 3,842.
What you need? First off a computer.
If you are buying one just for this the Macbook Pro would be ideal but even a cheap Windows PC could work. Next you need a Midi to USB cable or interface for about $50 so that you keyboard and pedal data can get into the computer. Then the computer and software renders the sound and you will need a decent USB audio interface. The computer send the audio to that interface and then you need a pair of good powered monitor speakers or headphones. Some USB audio interface contain the midi interface all in one box.
This is the best way to go. Likey cost for the box is $150, give or take $50. Powered monotor speakers will cost anything you want to spend.
Likely more than $200. You will have to audition them. Bring a CD recording of a solo piano concert to the store and listen to your CD.
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You have to do the audition with music you know well. The computer setup is more complex than just buying a DP but you gain flexibility. You can upgrade the sound as technology advances forever and you can record and mix and cut CDs and so on. But is not as easy as just playing a acoustic piano. Which is best depends on the goal, is it playing just for your own enjoyment or do you want to record your work. If recording is a goal then a computer is almost a requirement, non-optional. I use 'Logic' and Synthogy can work well with Logic.
See here for some of what you can do with it. Re: Synthogy Ivory 10/23/09 01:35 PM 10/23/09 01:35 PM Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 4,683. The quality of the sound that you hear will depend in large part on the soundcard. You could use the computer's onboard sound chip and download the free which I used in the past. For better quality get a good soundcard.
E-mu's provides very good quality output, includes MIDI connections, and is inexpensive. (You'll connect to the computer via either MIDI cables or a USB MIDI cable.) This card is intended for desktop computers. E-mu does also have a model for laptops. Please note: E-mu is for PC's; no MAC support. If you're a MAC user, Lynx Studio has several high quality products. They're all expensive and, I think, do not have built in MIDI connectors.
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The site is If you're not already using studio quality headphones, such as those in Sennheiser's 600 series, those 'phones will also greatly improve your listening experience. Re: Synthogy Ivory 10/23/09 03:48 PM 10/23/09 03:48 PM Joined: May 2009 Posts: 1,676. You are right about not needing any other software. I was trying only to point out that once you add a computer all kind of options become available, like recording and producing music, doing multi-track recording and so on. All for only another $199 (the price of Logic Express) But yes Synthogy will work all by itself. I'm curious about the powered monitor vs. A stereo amp and speakers.
I was trying to suggest a simple setup that used fewer cables. Also monitor tend to be 'accurate' while all but the better stereo equipment these days tends to be tuned for exaggerated bass that goes 'thump, thump'. Do you get better sound per dollar with small stereo speakers. Actually my plan for my own use is a set of speakers and tube amps with each driver powered by it's own small tube based amp. I've gotten into amp and speaker building lately.
It will take some experiments to design a set of speakers that sound like a piano and not like a piano sound played over speakers. I'm thinking of using wood (not composite or MDF) cabinets that can add a kind of 'sound board effect'.
The sound of a DP is very much defined by the speaker system so it pays to think about speakers a lot. I'll admit my suggestion of powered speakers was to make it simpler. But still stereo amp or monitor speakers bring that familiar CD of solo piano music with you to the store and listen for a long time. Any DP is only as good as the speakers.
Re: Synthogy Ivory 10/23/09 07:38 PM 10/23/09 07:38 PM Joined: Oct 2009 Posts: 58. Thanks for the advive. Reading into the advice I feel that what your saying now is I will not get away with using a lap top due to the need for a good sound card which will only be found on a good desk top and I will not gain anything unless I have a good set of powered speakers additional to my Hp 207 cabinet speaker set up.
The Hp207 has got inputs and I was kind of hoping I could send the ivory audio back into the Hp207 and out through its speaker system. I wanted to be able to sit a laptop on top of the piano and have everything connected into the piano.
Regards Daz Re: Synthogy Ivory 10/24/09 04:07 AM 10/24/09 04:07 AM Joined: May 2009 Posts: 1,676. Hi, A laptop works also with an external audio interface (I use a TC Electronic Konnekt 8 in my studio, which is fireware controlled).
Also what you want is exactly what I'm doing with my Kawai CA111. Kawai CA111 midi out to computer computer running synthogy computer connected to tc electronics connect 8 (DAC/audio interface) connect 8 connected (line out's) to CA111 That way I can play on my CA111, and the sound also comes from my CA111 (it has great internal speakers). The only thing that is different now is that I use higher quality samples.
I'm using an Emu 1212m with my DP, and studio monitors. Not to hijack the thread, but Victor, how do you use an amp, and hifi speakers? How do you run the keyboard thru the amp? I've heard of this, but never really read an explanation of how it's done. I've got the Roland RD700gx.
I've got an old Pioneer receiver, and a pair of speakers. Is this what you're referring to? I apologize Daren, for stepping in with this question.
You can connect your keyboard's line out to an amplifiers line in (could also be called cd, aux, etc.). Most work with a normal RCA cable. Turn the sound on the keyboard off, and turn your amp on, that should do the trick normally. There is a difference between monitors (powered or not), and hi-fi speakers.
How big this difference is, is discussed in countless threads on the internet. But it is better to use the speaker for what it is built. If I want to enjoy a great recording I listen to my hi-fi speakers. If I want to judge music I am producing or mixing, and search for errors, I listen to my monitors.
In my opinion, and having owned both, one is better off with some hi-fi speakers from Wharfedale or mirage, and a nice NAD set, then by spending the same amount on monitor's like KRK's or Genelecs. The thumping bass you are referring to ChrisA, is only on the low class audio speakers (like those powered computer speakers, logitech is horrible with the bass), and some BOSE systems really exceggerate. As soon as you move up, this issue will be gone.
Hi, A laptop works also with an external audio interface (I use a TC Electronic Konnekt 8 in my studio, which is fireware controlled). Also what you want is exactly what I'm doing with my Kawai CA111. Kawai CA111 midi out to computer computer running synthogy computer connected to tc electronics connect 8 (DAC/audio interface) connect 8 connected (line out's) to CA111 That way I can play on my CA111, and the sound also comes from my CA111 (it has great internal speakers). The only thing that is different now is that I use higher quality samples. When you make like this don't you hear the internal sound when playing? Actually my plan for my own use is a set of speakers and tube amps with each driver powered by it's own small tube based amp.
I've gotten into amp and speaker building lately. It will take some experiments to design a set of speakers that sound like a piano and not like a piano sound played over speakers. I'm thinking of using wood (not composite or MDF) cabinets that can add a kind of 'sound board effect'. Let us know what you do here, I'm interested. Its a bit away from the thinking that the studio monitors should be neutral and not color the sound. As long as the color makes up for something that is missing in piano model or sample, it should be of benefit. Let us know what you do here, I'm interested.
Its a bit away from the thinking that the studio monitors should be neutral and not color the sound. As long as the color makes up for something that is missing in piano model or sample, it should be of benefit. It might be interesting to take an actual piano soundboard and excite it via electro-mechanical means to make all of the sound. But you would need to mathematically subtract the response of the soundboard from the signal doing the exciting. Which would require a fair amount of R&D to do right, and not just have some wood and speakers flapping about. IMO it's better to just skip anything resonating altogether and accurately reproduce the sound directly with good speakers.
Let me also offer my opinion of stereo speakers vs. Stereo speakers, good ones anyway, are designed to be listened to in far-field. They might have driver arrangements such as MTM that won't blend well in the near-field. They are also designed to produce a louder sound that will easily fill a room. Monitors are designed for closer listening at a lower level, which I think is what you want if they are going to be placed near or on your DP.
IMO it's better to just skip anything resonating altogether and accurately reproduce the sound directly with good speakers. Let me also offer my opinion of stereo speakers vs. Stereo speakers, good ones anyway, are designed to be listened to in far-field. They might have driver arrangements such as MTM that won't blend well in the near-field. They are also designed to produce a louder sound that will easily fill a room. Monitors are designed for closer listening at a lower level I think the sound board could sound more 'real'. Simply because the sound board is physically large.
Acoustic pianos tend to have a large radiating surface and a good DP should try to emulate that. The AV N3 tries to do ths by using multiple drivers mounted horizontally. If I were to try to make a true sound board speaker that is driven by electro-mechanical transducers. I think I'd build a servo controlled system that uses measurement microphones or accelerometers glued to the soundboard. To control a servo loop.
Likely it would have to be all analog. This can and has been done.
Infinity sold a speaker system (the 'IRS') many years ago (about 1980) that used accelerometers and a processor to control speaker cone position. But these were very expensive speakers ($90K in 1980, back when $90K would buy a house in California) Infinity used a 2000W per channel bass amp controlled by large amounts of negative feedback from the accelerometers that were glued to the speaker cones. (here is a in a way to small room) Bottom line is that near perfect servo controlled speakers were being built 30 years ago. If you want the DP to sound like a piano you have to state 'from where'. For example if you play an acoustic piano in a large room and some one is walking in a circle around the piano while you play, at every point around the circle the listener will hear a truly 'convincing' piano sound.
The sound will be different if you are to the left or right side because of the way the open lid reflects sound. The pianist hears a different tone than the audiance in the 12th row. Real acoustic pianos produce a non-uniform 360 degree sound field. Duplicating that effect, where the digital piano beams the sound in 360 degrees is the holy grail of DPs. I thnk the Avant Gran N3 comes close to doing this. With two monitor speakers you can only reproduce the sound for one person at one location (typically the pianist seated on the bench) and even then there is a box you can't move you head from or the sound is no longer 'good'. As Dewster said, the monitors are for 'near field' which means the listener is located in one specific chair that had better not move more than 18 inches.
Monitors will never reproduce the 360 degree sound of an acoustic piano. Not even close. But most people playing only for themselves wouldn't care. I'm much more interrested in the 'Holy Grail' and I think it can be done as a DIY project.
My goal is to be 80% as good as the N3 for about $500. I think this is not to hard to do. But to surpass the N3 I think something like the servo control sound board speaker might be required and I doubt it would be much cheaper in 2010 than in 1980. But who would pay over $100K for a DP? (here is a in a way to small room) Holy crap! Reviews written in the audiophile mags at the times say things like these are the only speakers that can reproduce the sound of a pipe organ in a cathedral or others said a concert grand piano backed by a full orchestra.
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But these were designed to be installed in a special built listening room. ANyone who could afford $90K in 1980 could easly afford to have the room built.
The reason for the height is not so much to make them really loud but the column of drivers forms a phased array and the sound when you add the contribution of each driver in phase forms a wide and short beam and keeps the energy off the floor and ceiling. For more info and better photos click 'IRS' I got interested in Infinity back in the 70's and still have a pair of their 'Quantum' speakers. They are currently disassembled in the garage being re-built. Later Infinity sold out to Harmond and they went 'main stream' and now sell rather generic products.
Hi ChrisA, Regarding your first post in this thread, I'd not require a USB to MIDI because my keyboard comes with a USB to host. Am I correct?
The jack/port looks a bit different from the usual USB port. I'm not sure if I've ever seen one, because I'm going to shop for one later. Do I need an ASIO driver for my Mac? You mention something about 'then the computer and software renders the sound and you will need a decent USB audio interface'. Since my Mac has already an existing sound card, can I not plug my headphones directly into Mac? Isn't the soundcard itself an audio interface? I'm pretty confused with technical terms.
And if I do ever get a BOSE L1 compact, can I plug my L1 directly into the Mac? Cashley, I'm jumping in here. You absolutely don't need usb to midi. I own Synthogy Ivory (just got it this week), Pianoteq, and TruePianos. I have 3 setups: 2 are PCs, one with a Yamaha PF500 DP and the other with a Yamaha CP-33 DP. The other is a high end gaming laptop with portable keyboard.
I use a usb Yamaha Audiogram 3 interface with all of them. I have Synthogy Ivory on an external USB 2.0 drive and it works very well, though Synthogy recommends using a dedicated internal SATA drive or a Firewire 800 drive. Pianoteq is the most fun to play. It envelopes me just more than the other two and there is something organic about it that I love but can't pinpoint. My wife and daughter say Ivory sounds the best to their ears, and TruePianos Diamond the second best. Ivory does sound the best when I record something and listen to it. Ivory is also takes the longest to load and is the hardest to install.
They all blow away any built-in sounds on any digital piano I've ever heard. Including high-end Clavinovas.
Updates for Ivory version 1 Ivory 1.72 Updates for Windows 7, Vista, or XP (iLok) These updates are for Ivory 1.7 on Windows 7, Vista, or XP with iLok. Note: Ivory 1.70 with iLok protection is required on Vista and optional on XP. Please make sure you have a valid Ivory iLok license before installing. Ivory VST 1.72.01 Update for 32-bit XP or newer This update includes Ivory 1.72.01 VST plug-in, new Ivory Cantabile host, updated tools, and PACE iLok drivers for 32-bit Windows 7, Vista, or XP with Service Pack 2.
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